https://dennesevictoria.info dennese victoria Fri, 15 Apr 2022 08:37:44 +0000 https://dennesevictoria.info en https://dennesevictoria.info/Nav Fri, 22 May 2020 06:48:43 +0000 dennese victoria https://dennesevictoria.info/Nav early devotions <img width="1328" height="2000" width_o="1328" height_o="2000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/fb68f3a9124e113edf877e1974ab557f49d42bc2cd75c12cdd536ceaaa8a8536/dennese-victoria_birds_010.jpg" data-mid="71984439" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/fb68f3a9124e113edf877e1974ab557f49d42bc2cd75c12cdd536ceaaa8a8536/dennese-victoria_birds_010.jpg" /> /&nbsp;childish desire <img width="1500" height="1500" width_o="1500" height_o="1500" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/f680c959369a34f08daa20d10b2a7ac9381aa58fb83b62a43ce400453eadc6b7/dvictoria_days-spent-with-pretend-family-25.jpg" data-mid="71983698" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/f680c959369a34f08daa20d10b2a7ac9381aa58fb83b62a43ce400453eadc6b7/dvictoria_days-spent-with-pretend-family-25.jpg" /> / clear mirrors and a house in which we don't live <img width="5091" height="7016" width_o="5091" height_o="7016" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/9d2003f3b6bb264ae8d9c8494143b732951992456ebc2a71a0cbb8c16cfdfb9e/Scan-126.jpeg" data-mid="72022819" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/9d2003f3b6bb264ae8d9c8494143b732951992456ebc2a71a0cbb8c16cfdfb9e/Scan-126.jpeg" /> / close attention <img width="4288" height="2848" width_o="4288" height_o="2848" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/df00d227250626c24e42b8edb6a5ae48eb29b01290130729ce280526a8124254/_DSC0039.jpg" data-mid="72029107" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/df00d227250626c24e42b8edb6a5ae48eb29b01290130729ce280526a8124254/_DSC0039.jpg" /> / the long way of our coming and the strange way of our arriving <img width="1200" height="960" width_o="1200" height_o="960" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/a4c2ebd5ac77d3492acd5f4faf6991506d131ad03aa23ea2c8194099c0fe2336/dennese-victoria---for-nope-fun--_-1.jpg" data-mid="96219480" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/a4c2ebd5ac77d3492acd5f4faf6991506d131ad03aa23ea2c8194099c0fe2336/dennese-victoria---for-nope-fun--_-1.jpg" /> / even though the whole world is burning <img width="1000" height="1000" width_o="1000" height_o="1000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/85c37f345012089e60ecdde0ce938522c9a329b4f44d9926924448f6123feb0d/cursor-circle.png" data-mid="72006741" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/85c37f345012089e60ecdde0ce938522c9a329b4f44d9926924448f6123feb0d/cursor-circle.png" /> /&nbsp;building a house <img width="2768" height="1848" width_o="2768" height_o="1848" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/a2690e7d2495bcc6791f1b09fe24dd8eadab70e29db436e0320c58ccbd0aca03/DSC06117-chang-ming.JPG" data-mid="121077494" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/a2690e7d2495bcc6791f1b09fe24dd8eadab70e29db436e0320c58ccbd0aca03/DSC06117-chang-ming.JPG" /> /&nbsp;some words for the rest of our lives <img width="4240" height="2832" width_o="4240" height_o="2832" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/754f73acd6d874deb74ed696a79e430f975f266f3e927159b8c4903915221472/SUNRISE-NO.-6-_DSC6378.jpg" data-mid="139610694" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/754f73acd6d874deb74ed696a79e430f975f266f3e927159b8c4903915221472/SUNRISE-NO.-6-_DSC6378.jpg" /> /&nbsp;look after each other <img width="7952" height="5304" width_o="7952" height_o="5304" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/2599a5625ad1aa21d25ee6cdcfb2692ba6a5703c5bca22f0de5a2e97c411bf4b/DSC04453.JPG" data-mid="239182084" border="0" 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data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/63ced771764a1fef38d3060c28d30b605e092d7291031e9149c11206f6e327e7/dennese-victoria_birds_005.jpg" data-mid="139696883" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/63ced771764a1fef38d3060c28d30b605e092d7291031e9149c11206f6e327e7/dennese-victoria_birds_005.jpg" /> <img width="2832" height="4240" width_o="2832" height_o="4240" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/06af4bcbe884228d790393955f4fb23aa8385b2c3ccd9497e34c459323a98e35/DSC07734.jpg" data-mid="139696894" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/06af4bcbe884228d790393955f4fb23aa8385b2c3ccd9497e34c459323a98e35/DSC07734.jpg" /> <img width="2832" height="4240" width_o="2832" height_o="4240" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/d0590e370ca314cd8c2ffde079ba571a6ebc2fda6e03c697db40386ebb289f28/DSC05659.jpg" data-mid="139696629" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/d0590e370ca314cd8c2ffde079ba571a6ebc2fda6e03c697db40386ebb289f28/DSC05659.jpg" /> <img width="1328" height="2000" width_o="1328" height_o="2000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/15dc420138521c18314384547392f7897ff81d28e9fd5db2e1cafdb6bb085d97/dennese-victoria_birds_013.jpg" data-mid="139696619" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/15dc420138521c18314384547392f7897ff81d28e9fd5db2e1cafdb6bb085d97/dennese-victoria_birds_013.jpg" /> <img width="1328" height="2000" width_o="1328" height_o="2000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/fb68f3a9124e113edf877e1974ab557f49d42bc2cd75c12cdd536ceaaa8a8536/dennese-victoria_birds_010.jpg" data-mid="139696621" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/fb68f3a9124e113edf877e1974ab557f49d42bc2cd75c12cdd536ceaaa8a8536/dennese-victoria_birds_010.jpg" /> <img width="2000" height="1328" width_o="2000" height_o="1328" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/1ce16bb71c879d00d21189aca13227d5a5957b1ea3eda2fc800675989cd03487/dennese-victoria_birds_015.jpg" data-mid="139696922" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/1ce16bb71c879d00d21189aca13227d5a5957b1ea3eda2fc800675989cd03487/dennese-victoria_birds_015.jpg" /> <img width="2406" height="3602" width_o="2406" height_o="3602" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/bcf1aa92457a94af0fa617b1682d5b68ac19f72fff7c75cd2f9402da0fd53ae9/DSC09277.jpg" data-mid="139696908" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/bcf1aa92457a94af0fa617b1682d5b68ac19f72fff7c75cd2f9402da0fd53ae9/DSC09277.jpg" /> <img width="4288" height="2848" width_o="4288" height_o="2848" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/df00d227250626c24e42b8edb6a5ae48eb29b01290130729ce280526a8124254/_DSC0039.jpg" data-mid="139697224" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/df00d227250626c24e42b8edb6a5ae48eb29b01290130729ce280526a8124254/_DSC0039.jpg" /> <img width="1334" height="750" width_o="1334" height_o="750" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/ca9eaccd8f4bbe49d274072aa09751ee40dd21e046e1fdd67f5516a5a910f1f0/IMG_3395.jpg" data-mid="139697226" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/ca9eaccd8f4bbe49d274072aa09751ee40dd21e046e1fdd67f5516a5a910f1f0/IMG_3395.jpg" /> <img width="5163" height="7060" width_o="5163" height_o="7060" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/e634cf8ea511a2ff8a84fb10efdf6d7f408b3b38dee18333140b28d9ef2fc97d/Scan-150.jpeg" data-mid="139697227" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/e634cf8ea511a2ff8a84fb10efdf6d7f408b3b38dee18333140b28d9ef2fc97d/Scan-150.jpeg" /> <img width="1500" height="1003" width_o="1500" height_o="1003" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/044099d2f58fb089fbcc7dbca9c0d3fca1124c9edab66b2c4eace48b6ffadd6b/dvictoria_days-spent-with-pretend-family-9.jpg" data-mid="139697223" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/044099d2f58fb089fbcc7dbca9c0d3fca1124c9edab66b2c4eace48b6ffadd6b/dvictoria_days-spent-with-pretend-family-9.jpg" /> <img width="3264" height="2448" width_o="3264" height_o="2448" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/34f308e984542f544ef533fc2146a298262258c9928b9346cbc418a6e22cc3c9/FullSizeRender.jpeg" data-mid="139699437" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/34f308e984542f544ef533fc2146a298262258c9928b9346cbc418a6e22cc3c9/FullSizeRender.jpeg" /> <img width="2848" height="4288" width_o="2848" height_o="4288" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/5ff59c44226913850a0a5fc699076a98fbdd411b344416808712c3b5b667c1d2/024.jpeg" data-mid="139700724" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/5ff59c44226913850a0a5fc699076a98fbdd411b344416808712c3b5b667c1d2/024.jpeg" /> <img width="2848" height="4288" width_o="2848" height_o="4288" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/547cf6f1ea123c6a4a1e1435ca33e64951b3660a694c0242dc88c05a823fc73b/_DSC0058.jpeg" data-mid="139700230" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/547cf6f1ea123c6a4a1e1435ca33e64951b3660a694c0242dc88c05a823fc73b/_DSC0058.jpeg" /> <img width="2433" height="3637" width_o="2433" height_o="3637" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/6c06ae948b928d4e3cf84a2be46d4553ee1c55c189fd20faa68f7838c6bec69d/000036-ed.jpeg" data-mid="139699435" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/6c06ae948b928d4e3cf84a2be46d4553ee1c55c189fd20faa68f7838c6bec69d/000036-ed.jpeg" /> <img width="5184" height="2912" width_o="5184" height_o="2912" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/cedca35745950b781ff3b46def9123b08534512043f1e2ed1dbc1a855d47f2dc/IMG_1569.jpeg" data-mid="139700979" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/cedca35745950b781ff3b46def9123b08534512043f1e2ed1dbc1a855d47f2dc/IMG_1569.jpeg" /> <img width="3456" height="5184" width_o="3456" height_o="5184" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/0ba521b14222f2d3a417cc0ef0f2fba8026aa1f82f2eb4148dd73bc55605686c/rizalista40.jpeg" data-mid="139701612" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/0ba521b14222f2d3a417cc0ef0f2fba8026aa1f82f2eb4148dd73bc55605686c/rizalista40.jpeg" /> https://dennesevictoria.info/videos Fri, 15 Apr 2022 08:37:44 +0000 dennese victoria https://dennesevictoria.info/videos for arabella paner - sea projection (as part of the languages of my friends) ( highest quality available. please check the settings on the lower right corner of player. ) Abbey’s mother died two years ago after a decade-long battle with a rare disease. It was her dream to bring her to the sea when she was alive. And once, she had asked me to photograph them together. We couldn’t do neither, not having the money. On one of our calls after her mother died, I just saw it in my mind, the photographs she took of her mother, projected on the water. I’ve been waiting for years, almost pushing her, to say yes. She was hoping for a grant, I was ready to take on another loan. Just this August, we just did it ourselves. It was so imperfect, three women and a rented projector on a rusty stand, an extension cord that could only let us project the image halfway into the water. And yet, it was the right process and ritual. That day was only supposed to be a test, studies for a grant application. But at some point we both stopped talking and just watched the waves and the water erase but then return her mother whole, again and again. The videos on this page are raw files I shot from the first day we tried to project on the water in Zambales.&nbsp; The end form of this project is still being developed. It is Arabella’s work. We’re still undecided about whether I was the producer, or the curator, or a midwife.&nbsp; 9 October 2025 ABOUT ARABELLA PANER Arabella is a Filipina storyteller working between photography and text, drawn to the intimacy of looking — a practice shaped by the possibilities of both error and chance. Her work moves through memory, care, grief, and transformation, rooted in personal histories and the quiet rituals of daily life. Her long-term project, I thought I saw a falling star softly land on my shoulder, navigated the layered terrain of motherhood, loss, and the delicate interplay between life and decay.A decade of caregiving shaped both her eye and her ethic; her practice has become a tender archive of the body and of the invisible acts of devotion that carry us forward. Trained in creative writing, she treats the photograph and the sentence as kin, interested in the poetics of care, the politics of softness, and the unseen labor of emotional endurance. https://www.instagram.com/arabellapaner/&nbsp; https://dennesevictoria.info/about Thu, 14 Apr 2022 04:09:38 +0000 dennese victoria https://dennesevictoria.info/about Born 11 October 1991, Dennese Victoria lives and works in the Philippines. Working across photography, film, moving image and installation, her practice engages with truth, memory, and personal history. Receiving a degree in Journalism from the University of Santo Tomas in Manila in 2012, she has since worked as a photographer, filmmaker, cultural worker, and educator. Central to her practice is collaboration and the question of care, developed over the years through working with other artists and communities in the Philippines and across Asia. Curriculum Vitae, Short Version | 9-9-2022Curriculum Vitae, Short Version | 10-9-2025 Contact:dennesevictoria@gmail.com Links:Instagram / THIRD HOUSE https://www.third-house.site/about notes, small projects, other experiments. a first attempt at creating and sharing space. still on view:&nbsp; A room for&nbsp;Danielle Castillo’s Visiting Hours (Philippine High School for the Arts) / For Angkor Photo Festival: Look after each other - companion text and afterword For John Torres, and Asian Artist Moving Image Platform(AAMP)’s Becoming Local:&nbsp;Camera work and participation in Barter For Angkor Photo Festival:Interview /Dennese Victoria and Swastik Pal for Even though the whole world is burning For Nope Fun:Interview / #491: Dennese Victoria For Lesley-Anne Cao: Essay / A reunion before the worldFor Fotoroom: Interview / Days spent with pretend family For the Laatikkomo Project, Finland: Interview / Things with which I helped build a myth https://dennesevictoria.info/friends Fri, 08 Oct 2021 11:01:55 +0000 dennese victoria https://dennesevictoria.info/friends <img width="2768" height="1848" width_o="2768" height_o="1848" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/36594f707cf2b7f4089bdec8bc63a8016769fc8aa27bd93d21083a2038ac76b0/DSC06117-chang-ming.JPG" data-mid="121073877" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/36594f707cf2b7f4089bdec8bc63a8016769fc8aa27bd93d21083a2038ac76b0/DSC06117-chang-ming.JPG" /> (screenshot from chang ming’s instagram, projected on a wall in the house where i live) Lee Chang Ming is a Singaporean photographer and artist interested in themes of intimacy, gender, and the everyday. His practice contemplates the subjective act of looking and the photographic medium as a process, exploring ideas of optics and haptics. He also runs Nope Fun, an independent publisher and platform focusing on photography and contemporary image making. His work, Beneath the Bodhi and the Banyan, is currently exhibited at the&nbsp;Taipei Fine Arts Museum in Taiwan as part of&nbsp;Affect Machine: Self-Healing in the Post-Capitalist Era. The group exhibition is on view until December 19, 2021. Contact:hello@leechangming.comLinks:Website Nope Fun Instagram Chang Ming and I also recorded a conversation last year: NOPE FUN / Interview #491: Dennese VictoriaSong from Chang Ming, 2017, white room, June has snacks: Hiroshi Satoh, Say Goodbye building a house I don’t yet know how to explain how much this conversation means to me. I feel humbled. I feel relieved. I feel like I am a good friend. It’s easy for me to forget that possibility. I think friendship, or relationships for this matter, have always been my earliest sources of anxiety. I was good at school, and then I was good at work. But leave me anywhere without a task, without something to accomplish, and I am lost and often unable to speak. And moving, I am always somehow moving and changing. And I’m not sure how I’ll come back. Or for those that care, have cared for me, how they’ll find me once I do come back. I met Chang Ming in 2016 at a workshop in Penang though what I remember the most is dancing. Him and Amrita and Asrul and dancing. How beautiful and vulnerable and strong Yu Yu was. How June was always warm. In 2019 in Berlin, Fadli was the one dancing, his two hands raised and I was sober, I’m almost always sober, and handing out glasses of water from the bar to Alvin and Geric and everyone and Amrita looked liked Norah Jones because she was so happy. How Kanel grew in his work though we cried. It’s hard to look at his work.&nbsp; I’ve been slowing down these days. Letting others in slowly. Letting myself in others’ lives even slower. The way other people fantasize about things, I often dream of scenes of being forgiven. Hello again, Comet. Yes, you can try again. Come, stand beside me for now. There’s time. There’s enough time. 22:0319 August 2021Metro Manila / Singapore Dennese Victoria Lee Chang Ming I discovered something today. You started Nope Fun in August. I can't remember actually I looked at the archives and the first post is August 26 or something In 2010 It's been 11 years of you doing this I should have an anniversary party I like the coincidence that it's your anniversary month. And then I checked the questions too because I was wondering, I wonder how he has changed, in terms of how you ask questions. It was totally different You were asking how long they brushed their teeth Yeah, it was always very trivial, kind of frivolous questions. Like, what's your favourite food. Or what's your favourite place in the house. Stuff that's totally not related to photographs. The one thing that I kept constant is asking about music - What's your favourite music? What do you recommend? Take me back. Where were you then? 2010 I had just finished army. Army? Because here in Singapore, we have to do compulsory conscription for military. I didn't know. Yeah How did you look like? I did two years of military. I know I don't look like it, but I was in the infantry. So I was in a jungle with guns and everything in the front lines like, camping or whatever. But I was just training, there's no war here. It was two years of pain and suffering. So I&nbsp; finished and then I was really following a lot of online blogs, like art blogs, not just photography, but just art blogs in general. And then seeing a lot of artists that inspired me and all that. So then I was like, Why don't I just start it myself? Actually Nope Fun first started on Flickr. You know, just browsing through, and so then I started a Flickr group first and after that I also started a Tumblr. So I would message - my first few interviews I actually conducted on Flickr then I posted them on Tumblr. And it's like, nothing to lose, right? So I was just reaching out to all these photographers that I liked at the time or whatever. I mean, if not, how am I ever going to talk to these people? I just started Nope Fun without thinking very much at all. It just really started on a whim, like one random night and Nope Fun itself is just a song at that time on My Space. It's a song? It's a song, yeah, but I can't find it anymore because I think My Space is a bit, I mean, who uses that now? And so it was just some random small experimental band. Anyway. So, it was just like this. That's how I started it. Nothing serious at all. So you were following a lot of people online, but were you shooting also? A little bit, yeah. I can't remember if you studied art or something. No, no. I was studying Communications and New Media. But it's not creative in that sense. There weren't any creative projects like photography or drawing or whatever, I was not aware of it like that. But it was more like academic theories. So photography is just mainly self-taught. But I also like to think that through looking at a lot, or getting influenced by looking at a lot of different styles, and seeing what I liked, and what resonated with me, that the internet was my teacher. I just thought of this funny joke cause I didn't know that you were in the military. So after you were shooting guns, and then now you're shooting photographs. I didn't know that. Such nice information. Yeah, you don't get to choose. So, it's only for men? Amrita's not going to the jungle? No, where is the gender equality here? Two years of my life. And two years of the prime of our life. Of our youth. Is there an age requirement? Depends, but usually after 18 for most people. That's intense. So yeah, I was just surprised that it's been 11 years. And then now, to know that it came from your military era. And so I wanted to ask you,&nbsp; how would you introduce yourself now? Because it's been a long time. I'm trying to recall how I did it. I think it was just on Flickr mail at first and just like, "Hi, I'm starting a blog. Would you be interested? I just have a list of like five or six questions". And then surprisingly, most of them reply. And then somewhere in between, I don't know, maybe like 40 or 50 interviews I can't remember, it started to be a bit more popular and then from then on after the first few interviews, it was all people submitting. So, I didn't ask people, they submitted to me. At first I wasn't very selective. I said, "Oh wow people are interested". I have to accept everyone, but after a while, I felt the need to maybe be a bit more selective. You know, just only featuring people that I really like. So, in a sense in the whole beginning part, I didn't really ask anyone. But for maybe the last couple of years, I think it was when I started working, though now when I think about it, it's all corresponding to phases in my life. So, I was very, very active during my university years and even after, like three or four posts a week. But then once I started working, there was just no energy to maintain it. So, I just slowed down a lot. If you've been through my archive, you probably noticed that there were very big gaps in between. So that's when I started working. And I guess it took a side line. And so after that the web traffic went down a lot and people stopped submitting. So, there were even bigger gaps. And then when I had time, I was like, okay, I want to start it again. I started writing to people that I wanted to start it again. And recently you've been doing it once a month, no? Like once a month you release something. I've been trying to get back into it. But also, you know the questions changed a lot. So it was very frivolous, but then I guess you could say the kind of people who were submitting were also a bit more serious about their practice. And I guess in my own practice I also was beginning to be a bit more serious about it. So maybe that's why the questions changed along the way. And another interesting thing was that the questions that I ask are always things that turn out relevant to things that I wanted to find out for myself. So, in the beginning stages, I was asking them, What's more important? Aesthetics, or content? I think that was a recurring question for the first 100 interviews or something. But then after that, I kind of moved on and said, okay, I think I already know this, for myself, and then after that, I asked other questions that I'm interested to see what people think about.Certain things that I was thinking about. For example, ideas about truth versus fiction in photography. I like that you mention this lightness because I've always felt a kind of lightness from you or from your approach. Not in the sense that you don't take it seriously, because you work so hard I feel, like you're always releasing something. But always releasing something is both a product of your hard work and also, your ability to let it go. Yeah, you're right. I didn't really articulate it that way but it's definitely how it is. Like not wanting to take the work too seriously but also very serious at the same time. How do I explain? Because you were also saying how you began Nope Fun was that you just did it. Was there no dark night of the soul? A kind of, I must do this? No, because from the beginning, at least, when it came to Nope Fun, it was like, if I didn't want to do it, then I would have just stopped. Because it's just me, there's nothing, there’s really nothing to lose. And even now there’s nothing to lose. And it's not like I'm doing this to build a reputation, or to network, and I don't depend on it for a living, either. It's just really for my own interest. So the stakes are low for myself. But when it came to my own photography, or my own practice, I think it depends on each project. Like certain projects, I don't have so much attachment to. But those that are more personal, then I think I do have more attachment. After the photos are taken, when it comes to putting it out there, I do actually struggle quite a bit with thinking, Okay, how do I present it? Some works actually, I have held on to for many years and I've never shown anyone. But then I’m also like, Why am I keeping it in? Why do I even make it in the first place? So then sometimes I just put it up. Or maybe for some of the work, I’ll have an idea that maybe this would be very good in this context, maybe it could be a book or maybe an exhibition. But then the right time never arrives to sort of put it out there. And then it just gets left in a corner. So as soon as I think that it's to my own detriment that I overthink when it’s the right thing, or when it's the right opportunity to throw something out there, then the other side of me will be like, Don't think so much and just go with it. Do it first and then figure it out later. But I think we probably talked about this before, that most of my ideas - I just never do it in the end. I think it's probably similar for you too, I’m sure you have a lot of ideas but like getting down to doing it or actually showing it, it's another thing. I don't know if I'm imagining it but I feel a sense of confidence from you. Like a secret confidence maybe. For example when you were talking about how you weren’t thinking about your career, I wanted to ask you if you were not conscious of being watched, especially by, for example, people whose opinions you value. So, I kind of envied that you feel a bit more free maybe or I don't know if it's an illusion, because I'm outside of your mind, but I do feel a certain sense of confidence about it. I think I get what you mean. Like, I think my confidence mainly comes from me being sure in what I like. And now my thinking will be, if I like it, someone out there is going to like it. So it's that kind of approach rather than trying to appeal to everyone or anything. I think I'm always trying to appeal to myself because then that way you attract like-minded people. Has it always been that way? Have you always been like that as a kid? Like, I know what I want. Maybe. Kind of. I think as a kid, yeah, I think I’m just very weird. I’m not really very sociable. Which is just strange to say because you've just interviewed 495 people. Yeah but I’m talking about face to face, or social settings. On the internet, it's a different thing. It's easier in a way. Approaching people in the street, or in a party or event is different from email exchanges, right? For you, is it like totally different rooms in your personality? Maybe no, maybe it’s a bit more bridged. I would like to think a bit more sociable now. I think it’s interesting. The internet self is not exactly like, I mean it is still true, but it's not exactly your daily self. Last time when we were still just messaging, you were telling me something about it being more organic for you, that whatever friendships you develop from the hundred people whether it’s with your work or with Nope Fun. But then I was thinking, isn't organic connection, isn’t it still born from this desire? Out of an intention? So, you still thought about it. And for example, you let people submit, but later on, you kind of thought, No, now I have to select. Yeah, you're right, it's not entirely organic in that sense. But it starts off with the intent, maybe someone submits, and then after that, whether or not we carry on that connection is up to us. For example, one of the people that submitted to me, this guy called Alex, and he was like, I think he was living in the US but he used to live in Singapore. And so he submitted and I featured him, and his family lives here so when he visited Singapore, he said, Let's meet up. So we met in person, and then he connected me to some of his other friends in Singapore. And then his friends are people that I hang out with now. So, it's like, indirectly he connected me to his other friends, and then now they’re my good friends. That kind of thing. I think that's what I mean. Because you can never plan these things. But if I didn't have that platform of Nope Fun, then I wouldn't have never made that kind of friendship. Of course, out of the 400, no, most of them after that are like, whatever. Another one is, for example this Japanese photographer submitted and then we exchanged emails quite often after that, and we have this email chain, that is, I think, 99 emails, really. Anyway, when he came to Singapore, we shared a table for Singapore Art Book Fair. So, it’s like, Wow we’re in real life. But I also think that it starts from this common interest of photography or art. And then because there's a common interest, then it's very easy to talk about, talk about anything. So, when you do meet them in real life, it’s still like bridges, they're still the same? Because for example, my problem is sometimes I think the people that talk to me online, they have this weird imagination of me that they look for when they meet me. And then they're kind of disappointed. Like they expected to be closer than I wanted, or than I was ready for. And especially with my recent work, with the invitations, it's just really a bit intimate. I'm having trouble with that - where to, or how to make people understand that access to me during the work, and in real life, are like different doors. It’s also hard to suddenly tell people that, Please enter through another door. So I don’t know. Maybe, and because you're talking about doors right now, I was imagining, it's how you build your house around you. Like you’re your own architect building how people can reach you. And so maybe yours is a little bit more like there’s a door for other people and there's another door for others. Maybe there's another for other things. For me also, maybe there's a window that's always open, and then another door that's here. Because depending on who you meet, you behave differently, right? Whether it's with your relatives or with artist friends or with your colleagues, I would say, based on those kinds of different relations, then you behave a certain way because it’s a different part of yourself. And they are all real, and they're all true, but it's just, yeah, different parts. I do feel that they're all real. Just different parts of the puzzle. I didn't expect this, because I was imagining that you were messaging people for Nope Fun. I didn't know that they came to you. Which is actually interesting because when I approach people, like whether it's for an official reason, or something personal, I always overthink the part about, Who am I to ask for their time? But then when I do begin to ask, I almost always kind of realize that a lot of people want to be asked. And then when I heard you say that they came themselves, I was thinking that maybe people do want to be found more than I think they want to be. Yeah, I think so. I think so. Nothing to add. But then there's a different context right? Because for me, it was that I’m running this blog, this platform that people can get exposure or whatever, so I'm offering something, in a way. Because I give them this network, not really a network but people who read it. So I feel like I always gave more; I'm offering something more than they would see. But for you, in your case, the stakes are higher I feel, because you're really putting yourself in it. For me, it's kind of like, it’s just a website and that's how it starts; for you it's like you are momentarily in that relationship between you and the person. But they don't get exposure. Yeah, so I guess it’s like, what can you offer them? What can they offer you? I guess I never really thought of it that way. But you still give time. You still give time, I feel. And I don't think a lot of people get asked often. That's what I like about what you do. I don't think a lot of people are asked often. That's what I like about the space. I wanted to ask, because you were saying something about how you often feel like you offer more than they can give. Because I was also thinking before that, I wonder if you wish that they also asked you. I know you usually just send questions, right? And then they answer back? So I wonder if you sometimes feel like hoping they would also ask you back. Yeah, possible. I think in the more recent ones I did. But there's not so much of a deep reason other than I wanted to keep the format consistent. And that format also allowed me to do so many in a short time. But if you're having more of back and forth, like what we did for your interview, which I really enjoyed, there's so much more time and effort involved. And it’s a different format altogether. So maybe I would love to have some separate platform for a more in-depth conversation as opposed to just Q&amp;A, because for most of the features as you know, it’s just Q&amp;A. And they don't ask me anything, it's just me sending questions. So you would introduce yourself, and then they’d send in the answers, and then usually it ends like that? Are you happy with that? Or does it not like feel a bit cold or something? Or is it because you decided it that way? I think it's because I decided that way. But also, it's kind of like, yes, it's a bit cold, but then it’s a foot in the door. And then anytime, I can just contact them again and say, Hey two years ago, I interviewed you about this thing. So at least there's some kind of connection there. Even though it's not deep, it's still something. Like what I said in the beginning, when I started it, I really didn't think about it at all. It's just I’m just going to do this thing and then I started it. And then somehow people seemed to like it, and then I just stuck to that format. So there's no real deep reflection on my side as to why I put it exactly in that formula other than, that's how I started and then I just kept to it. In fact, it's only on the more recent ones that it’s kind of a little more in-depth. Cause you were suggesting this approach that’s not just Q&amp;A, so I was like, okay. Thanks for giving me extra work. Thanks for making me work harder? But no, because I'm really just curious also. So I began in this “world” of art exhibitions around 2015. And at first, I was just happy about the pictures on the wall, and sometimes the free flights. But now I’m also thinking, I wonder if I'm making the most of it. Or, how do I actually do that? I remember when we were in Germany, and Fadli was, like, super pro. He was giving his books and stuff, and we were like, What do we eat? Yeah he was probably meeting some important person and we were like, Where do we go? There’s a nice café there. We were just following June. I don't know if we're making the most of it, or if it’s okay that we're still learning. But I remember during that time, like a very meaningful part of it for me was during the time Amrita was cooking, and Jörg was telling us about his project. About his project in, was it South America? Yeah. And I didn't even know that his mother had died early and that's why he made that project. So, to me, that was the, Okay, this is why I'm here. Because it's very human. And so it’s not just the free flights, not just the allowance. I don't know. You've been to a lot of fairs. And you had that interview. Not a lot of fairs actually, it's just Singapore Art Book Fair. What’s the one with Czar? Oh, that was another event. It was like a one-off thing organized by two of my friends slash acquaintances. And yeah, it was an event where we talked about publishing and self-publishing art books. And then they released a few artists' books, and then had this panel discussion about publishing and bookmaking. Do those things that feel the same to you? Does it give you a kind of, Woah, this is where I’m meant to be? On a scale of 1 to 10 does it feel like a meaningful event for you? I guess I'm asking, When do you feel successful? When do you feel like you’ve made it? Or, which things come close to that? Yeah, I think to maybe cut across a few of your questions or stories just now from about the time in Germany to about finding success and meaning, I think, because I’m also thinking more about meaning - about what I find meaningful in all these experiences. At the end of the day, it is about finding a connection, like a real connection to other people. Like meeting all of you guys, that's the biggest takeaway, right? For me, it's also very inspiring. And, or like you just mentioned, I got to meet Czar, and we became friends and hung out for a few days, and right now we still chat randomly now and then which is very, very nice. And I don't think it's just like, Oh, I’m making a new friend. It’s also because we have certain, a common understanding through making art or photographs and therefore there’s this language that we can understand and that we can’t with other people who are not involved in this creative or art making kind of thing. There’s this certain kind of mutual understanding, or like, solidarity. Like an affirmation. Like an affirmation too, yes. But the success part, for me I have the privilege of not depending on it for a living. This was a deliberate choice in this current point of time to not depend on it for a living so I don't have to operate in a certain way. So I think that kind of frees me a bit from what I perceive a proper artist or photographer should be and to just do things the way I wanted to. So maybe that relates to your earlier point on how maybe you see me as a bit more than free or light, and not taking it too seriously. Because, yeah, I don't a hundred percent focus, I don't depend on it for my day to day, and therefore I'm able to be a bit more free about how I deal with it and that's not to say I don't take it seriously because actually, I feel like I take it more seriously than let's say, my day job. But I don't have to be so tied down with it Do you know what I mean? Because I imagine that if I had to do it full time, my approach would be very different. And I don't think I would enjoy it at this current point in my life. I don't know about the future, but now, when I think of the pressure to behave a certain way, or to present myself a certain way, and maybe even market myself a certain way, and go out and network more like how I would do in my day job, that all of this would take the joy out of it. Maybe I was thinking of, or wondering about what would your dream projects be? How do you imagine growing or something? My dream project would be to travel to some amazing place in nature, like go to Iceland or something, and just live there for a while, do a residency there, then maybe take some photos. And, yeah, make something there. To just go somewhere inspiring or different. Somewhere I can feel more alive? Because I think I complain to you that I feel very alienated with work in a way. But yeah, so I guess doing things that are like, Woah i'm alive. This is where I'm meant to be. And then the dream part would be nothing about how I am going to sell it or whatever. That's the least interesting part. How about you? Do you have a dream? I want to be cool enough to be able to give grants and hire people. That's kind of been my dream since the pandemic started. Because for example I'm friends with these filmmakers, they run Los Otros, which is where I did that residency, and I feel like their life is kind of close to my ideal life. Like they would sometimes call at the most random of times and it'll be like Hey, we have this project, would you like to participate? Whether they would call me to fly to Seoul, Goa, or Shanghai, or to participate in a 16mm filmmaking workshop, I want to be able to do that. I feel like here, in this room, because we're making such intimate, personal projects, it is kind of life-saving when you find someone who understands, like what you were saying about finding connection. That's why I kind of feel a bit of guilt. Or maybe it's not guilt, but just like a desire to, I wish I could give you what I'm feeling right now. That kind of, this is where i'm meant to be. Sorry that's funny. So recently because of the pandemic I'm thinking of that a lot. But I have a lot to learn. I'm not good with meetings. I'm still learning, learning not really to sell, but just not to cancel myself out. For example, recently another friend called me and he was like, Hey, I'm shooting this film. It's a small film, it's just for an exhibit. I want you to shoot it. And then for example that person would say, I like your work. And then I would immediately say, Are you sure? Because I'm also scared. Because I feel like I change a lot? And the things I am able to do before, I'm not sure if I can do them again. And that's why when people bring me their visions, their projects, I'm scared. Like I might not…that I don't measure up to that, to what you have in your head. I was going to ask you earlier about... I’m happy you mentioned the thing about connection, how that's what we actually go for. Can I add on to mine? Because when you mentioned offering other people grants, and all, I also thought that actually one of the things I always wanted to do is to have my own space. Like an exhibition or event space. And then have exhibits, or gigs, or whatever, just really having that space to do things that you would like, and then offering it to other people to do things they would like. One of my favourite shows that I did was in a small artist gallery that was almost just out of the blue. I mean I knew them from before, and it was just like 2 artists that were like, Do you want to do a show? We have the space for 2 weeks and you can just do anything, and that was like the most freeing and wonderful kind of experience. And so like I was saying I want to have my own thing where I can offer other people that kind of space to do things. I have this thing where I feel like I have to earn things. But then when I think about who has space and can give space, most of the time, it's just people with resources. And it’s not always like because they were the best or something. They just have resources. And so I think about that a lot, that maybe it's not as impossible as I think it is. That would be nice. To be able to just go like, Hey you can have a show. Because, for example from the open call last year, I'm still very haunted by it, you know? I had this dream of making a book. I wanted to take a single image from the selection from each artist, and then get more from people we didn't select, and just make a book out of it. But I didn't get a grant for it. I applied twice, and I was like, Why? In the proposal I wrote something about how I wanted to use the grant money to give artists fees, and then print a single book for each artist. So for example, from the 24, maybe I can do 48, and then they get one book each and so do the people that have helped in bringing that project to life. I’m like, Why is that not cool enough? And also, after that curation, I'm also asking myself like, How many more people do I need to meet? Like, I can't even keep up with you, and YuYu, and everyone. Yeah, me too. I’m the same. I'm the same. So I guess it's normal, no? Yeah, I think it's totally normal. I feel a lot of guilt about it. Maybe it's because I was raised Christian. Yeah me too. Too much being told that you have to give back. Because I go back to that, that it is very life-saving sometimes when you are given something. I was also looking at your website. And then I was looking at Soft Bloom again. And then I'm only noticing now how clear it is as opposed to the ones before and that it is more quiet. It's less of a passing, like how I was telling you about the lightness in your work earlier, but with Soft Bloom the images have a more clarity to them. And then I read the text about the eyes touching the photograph… And so I wonder, did you change cameras? Or did you just change in terms of approach or feelings? More of the feeling. And I think most of those kinds of projects, Until Then, this one, and my other series as well, it's more about the kinds of feelings when taking it, and when i'm editing after that.&nbsp; And actually, Asrul said the same thing as you. He said, Oh, this is so different. Like, I feel so much more still. But it's the same camera, it is the same camera that I used for Until Then. So, I'm also very happy that both you and him noticed it because that was what I wanted too - I guess to show a different kind of feeling. And that kind of feeling you can't really say, or speak about in a way. So i'm very glad that not only myself but that other people can also pick up on that. It's very clear. But maybe also because you had more time to photograph than Until Then. Yeah, but that one is still ongoing. Do you feel a need to close a project? Usually not. But recently, I've been thinking that sometimes I guess I do. Like one of the things that has been on my mind the past few weeks is this earlier, so-called series, I don't even know if you can call it a series. But the Idle Hands series, it's on my website, i don't know if you saw it, but it was one of the things I showed when we first met. You had a zine You saw it? I don't know if I saw it online or in real life, but I remember you had a zine. Also, in all my memories of you, you’ve somehow always brought something printed with you. Yeah, I did. But yeah I was showing that and I remember them sitting there saying, Oh it's just like random pictures that you put together. And it could be in any other series. And I didn't realize it until recently that actually, that has affected me since then, like this, this short comment. I forgot that I had to unlearn that, that kind of feeling. But I guess at that point it was like, okay, these serious photographers are telling me that this has to mean something. But then now, after some time, I realize that actually, that's not true. I knew what I was doing. And through their perspective, that's what they saw but then again, it was a photography workshop and there's a certain way of understanding and reading images. So looking back, I realised, actually, no, actually maybe you just didn't see the whole... the bigger picture that I was trying to, or the bigger feeling I was trying to capture. I was going to say, that they also changed after that workshop. Yeah. Yeah, even with the friendship book. That's true. They were more random after that. Yeah. Maybe we changed them too. I feel like we do affect each other, in a way. Especially if we listen we will. It's inevitable. It might come out later, but I feel that we do change each other. So it scared you? It scared you that they felt it was random? At the time I was like, oh okay, it was almost like a kind of shortcoming. I think it was the way they said it also. But now when I think about it, I've been thinking of making a zine, or a book about that series, even though it's so long ago. Maybe I'm just getting old, but those are photos I took in my twenties and then yeah, I just want to kind of close it in a way. Like making something, and then kind of just leaving that and moving on. But before that I didn't really think, Okay, I'm going to end this and start something new, and then this will start something new. Or even thinking of projects as strictly projects, because they all overlap in the end. For me, I think they all overlap. I also move images. For example for the fake family, there were photographs from my real family project and I just felt like they could go there too. And that maybe I will also use them later. I feel like it's okay. I think it's okay to let yourself change and see things another way. I'm remembering a thought. I was looking at Soft Bloom and then I was looking at Beneath the Bodhi and Banyan, and so I had this thought of, Chang Ming is photographing gods like bodies, or bodies like gods. It's the same tenderness, the same attention. The same camera I think. I realised also, looking at the photos I was taking when I was a kid, like a preteens kid, I feel like my style is the same you know. When I look at those old photos, I’m like, This is exactly what I would take now. There's this shot of a flower, and this kind of framing or composition like a landscape when we went for holiday, it's the same. Like, What's going on? I didn't change at all. You just got older. I didn't improve at all either. I'm just like a seven-year-old kid. Or maybe you were already old then. And that now you're just becoming yourself. You can make an exhibit with the older you and the younger you. Chang Ming by Chang Ming. Wait, what were you going to say? Oh because your first question was about how you see me as someone who approaches things a bit more lightly, or like, not too serious . No, it wasn't that... It wasn't about being not too serious, but it was the part where you could let go. But for you, it's quite different, right? Definitely. But that's aIso what I admire. I remember this very, minute, random moment. I remember we were setting up the exhibition in Penang and you were basically adjusting all your photos on the wall. I was like, it looks pretty good or whatever, then you were like, No, I have to make it perfectly levelled and I have to make it exactly the same cm that I planned on this wall, and I was like, Oh. Love. And then you said something like, No, but people who can will see it. I kind of remember that and I was like, I like this very deliberate - Or maybe I'm the only one that sees it. Because whenever they would exhibit it, I would really notice that, Oh, they brought that picture down. I won't comment, but I would be like, why did they bring that picture down? Yeah, it's very... It's like labor for me. First, I would have to earn it, and then I would have to be worth it. So I'm a bit tired also. And recently I've been longing for lightness, and also like a more holistic acceptance. Not only when it's polished, or when it's good, I’m kind of longing for that. To be accepted. Even if it's not earned, or something like that. I'm trying to let go of that, I need to earn everything, I need to be worth it. Because maybe that's what's also making the interactions with other people too intense, because it's kind of this electrified space, instead of this, like, more gentle, Okay, let's just stand beside each other. I like what you said about the foot in the door. Because sometimes, I think the way I ask, it's immediately too intense. Yeah, it's too all-in. There's no gradual thing. No. And I just think it's hard to open people up that way, because they're just too shocked to even answer. Sometimes it's also nicer to wait for thoughts, and see how things go. Yeah. Yeah, so, I'm just thinking about that. Because sometimes I'm also disappointed in myself when a conversation doesn't go right. I could sense that I wasn't able to get the person to open up, or to tell me what they really think. I would wonder if it's because I didn't ask the questions right. But then I appreciate what you say about sometimes, it is like, really timing and season and - You can't force it. Yeah, you can't force it. It's also the other person trusting you. I guess it's a dance too. To sometimes need to push, and then to sometimes have that lightness. And sometimes to have your own gallery. Let me just look if I forgot to ask you anything. Though I think these are your Nope Fun questions also, Who's inspiring you right now? Or maybe, what's helping you right now? What's helping me right now. I don't know, I didn't think about this, because it can feel like I'm just cruising by on autopilot and not even like - It's okay. I can be happy with this as the foot in the door. Music, music always helps a lot. So, this recently, this guy called Fred again.. So I'd just be listening and going for walks in the evening. And it's very nice. Yeah, that's the one thing that's been helping me, or inspiring me, going for walks. And crying? Not this week but in the previous weeks there was this time when we were working from home. And I'm staying at home the whole day, right? So, I need to get up. So, I'll go for the evening walks and then just walk around my estate and listen to music and I feel like that really clears my head and I have a lot of ideas. I want to do this. I'm going to be making one zine every week. I'm going to do this project. Walking and listening to music has been very nice. Yeah, it moves you, like you're moving literally, and then it kind of moves your mind. For me, being on a commute has the same effect. For example, when I'm on a long bus ride I feel like I can think a lot for some reason. Yeah, so it's the same thing. So, I don't know. I don't have any more questions. I feel like we've covered everything. Thanks for having me. Thank you for talking to me. I hope both of us get to start our own spaces. It would be really nice to offer space. https://dennesevictoria.info/look-after-each-other Sun, 10 Oct 2021 06:27:20 +0000 dennese victoria https://dennesevictoria.info/look-after-each-other Debmalya Ray Choudhuri (b.1992) is an artist from India, currently based in New York. He uses photography, performance and text in his work. Confronting some personal crises , he left India and is now based in New York.&nbsp; He deals with the themes of the “queerness” of desire, love, and identity using a very personal and intense approach. His practice has its roots in the need to take distance from the chaos of the surroundings, and get intimate, physically and emotionally, in places where the hunt is more lyrical, delicate, sometimes strong and operating in the region between fear and desire. Over time, the creative practice has naturally flowed from finding a sense of belonging to one place, to connecting to people by establishing closeness to one person at a time. This way, the author tries to understand the why’s and how’s people express desire and love and uses photography to converse with them. He uses these experiences, and conversations with strangers and friends to build the complex play of what it means to be here, to struggle and to live in a broader sociopolitical realm of existence. The lines between the subject and the photographer are blurred and fluid in his work. These dual conversations open new perspectives on the relationship between the self and the other. He attended workshops at The International Center of Photography (ICP) in New York for a while and currently works on long term personal projects. Contact:debmalya.roychoudhuri@gmail.comLinks:Website&nbsp;Instagram Kelsey Sucena + Deb Choudhuri: A Fragile Trace of Things https://fromhereonout.net/Q-A-Kelsey-Sucena-Deb-Choudhuri look after each other 06:00, 24 July 2021, Metro Manila / 18:00, 23 July 2021, New York Dennese Victoria Deb Choudhuri i actually don’t know how to begin this Hi. How are you? hi. it’s morning for me, it’s 6 in the morning. It's really early. it’s the opposite of new york time. actually maybe let’s turn off the video. so i can talk because i’m nervous. Okay. i wanted to first thank you for saying yes. because actually you don’t have to talk to me, and i guess there’s not much in it for you. so i wanted to thank you for that. but at the same time - Wait, Dennese, I will try to just open the video because I think sometimes your voice just gets a bit cut off. So I can make sense of what you are saying then at least. okay, sorry. sorry, i’ll turn on mine. Yeah. I don’t know if your wifi connection is good, or mine is problematic, but yeah. maybe mine is also bad. Sometimes just the voice gets cuts off a little bit. But it’s okay, it should be good. can you hear me now? It’s alright. i’m not really prepared.i’m not treating it as an interview. and i worry that it’s kind of like me going to the priest and confessing. but it is, kind of that - how do i want to begin? You wanted to like ask me something? yeah, no, i am going to ask. i’m just trying to begin. Okay... No, that’s what I read in your e-mail also… as you can i see i am anxious. but i was going to say earlier that from the beginning, you have always kind of answered me even if you didn’t have to. what i remember is that how i first found you was basically we shared the open call, and then i saw your instagram. I think i couldn’t make it that day, I was working or something. The time difference was there so I couldn’t make it on that screening day. yeah, I remember. no, no. i was actually thinking of before, during the application process. so the first time i opened your instagram is the first time that i saw your work. and then i think you were in kind of a crisis then. and then i just kind of panicked because you were in trouble. and i just kind of wrote to you and you answered very kindly. so that was before. way earlier before i would know that we would select your work. so for me at least that was how i met you. and i guess what i wanted for this, and because you have actually written a lot about your work, and recently i’m surprised to see colour in your work, but i think now i wanted to talk to you as someone who showed your work, who believed in it, but also as someone who is scared by it. i mean, i feel a lot because of it. and at the same time i kind of, as a curator and as someone who wrote all of those things about care, i kind of ran away, i feel. like i couldn’t continue to listen, i couldn’t continue to listen as much Yeah it’s been a journey for me also in that way because, like you know, it’s not something that I had planned before or something that I had in mind that I want to work in this way or the other. It’s just how kind of life leads you to different situations and it took me a while to actually understand and be able to put or start to put things together or make sense of it. I don’t really, for the most part, i don’t always plan on how I am going to approach something, or things like that. But of course I am always fascinated by people who have like been through some experiences that kind of change their ways of looking at their own lives and in some way confronting several issues of their own life. So I believe that it may be a part of me, but also a part of journeys of several other people who are part of this greater image of myself. So you know… it’s not just - but yeah of course the way it started and I still don’t think i can actually make sense of the loss that I have had in the past. I am trying to get over it and I am trying to find ways of not letting the past always kind of haunt me, but also it’s something that keeps me moving forward. My belief and my hope in different people from different identities and different experiences themselves, that’s some sort of faith that keeps me moving...so yeah, there is that. That’s how it kind of like started. sorry for being intense from the beginning. because i know that the work is not you, i mean it is part of you, but that you are like a larger than - It is me in a way, like everything is about me. But I just don’t want to make that kind of a message that it is just me, or you know…It's just how I have started. Like I look at life that way, and how and what that means to me. Because I am sure that it’s not also possible that everyone that I photograph or every situation that I am in, cannot actually keep going forever you know... I cannot hold on to people forever. But photography is definitely an efficient tool to make some meaning out of what’s left in life actually... And yeah there are many issues that are always...issues like this that basically relates to, either with death or some sort of addiction, that are always difficult to talk about. But also there are ways in which I feel all of us find ways to tell our stories through struggles. And as long as we do that, it’s fair… It’s all part of life and we just have to... As long as we listen to each other and are kind enough to accommodate each other, that’s only thing that matters for me. i guess, i’m also, because, i guess i’m also not just remembering your work, but also the things you would sometimes post on instagram. and during that time, i was kind of thinking as the “curator” during that time, that for you, was i also that “art world?” cause i was also writing to you before about how to me, you are actually successful already. and i think i remember just trying to convince you to kind of stay. Hmmm...Yeah I know. I wouldn’t, like when I say that, of course I do go through like some emotional upsurges and downsides but eventually I am trying to look at the positive side too, you know. Like not to get too lost in some sort of cycle of things and it is important. Now I think eventually we all grow out of a certain pattern and cycle and it is important to keep growing and keep healing from within and I am trying to get there eventually. yeah. no, no because not to put you on the spot but i was also just wondering, what did you think like was my responsibility? Sorry i think I lost you hello? can you hear me now? Did you ask me something? can you repeat the question? i think i’m just also asking like how to not make people - how to not leave people feeling used, you know? like is it just for a show? because with work like yours, and with similar work, it’s just so intimate that it’s hard for me to separate it from seeing that person as a person, and not just a photographer. and then i know i had that professional role but at the same time i was thinking of like, how do we - not just for you - how do we actually navigate that? because i don’t - How do I do it? or in general? or maybe what do you think? because i do think about it like, is just a show worth it? or how do we actually- I think photography in itself is very difficult to - like condense so much of information or experience of a human being. That’s why we have film, and why we try to like gradually expand our horizons towards that way. But definitely, I look at everything in terms of multiplicities. So the more images we have, it is something like a way to also make sense of where we are headed to. This is something that lot of people have told me, like people who I respect and love. You know, it’s like, growing like a tree, as they say. It’s definitely something that’s very important for all of us. And I think after a point, art cannot exist just in a bubble, and we just have to find people who react and people who kind of like, you know at some level, we connect at a wavelength, right? So we have to always keep searching, for places and people who can connect to each other, and disseminate more of our art and our experience. So, that is just how it is. I mean like, for example I always try to work with people who are, I would say, like you know, someone who tries to do different things. Like for example when you started curating this. It’s not really about how rigid things are, but how fluid it can be. Like how different forms of shape all of our works together can take in, particularly in Angkor. Because it was an open call also, we saw like so many different kinds of work. It’s not just personal, but it was also everything. So I think that is very powerful in itself. i’m a bit of at a loss for words. cause i was, i don’t know, you seem so lighter than i imagined. i was really worried for you. yeah. so now i’m kind of like, how do i do this? i imagined something else. but it’s nice this way, you know? There are some things which are hard and difficult for me to talk about, so I am trying to talk about more lighter things and ways like we can look at each other’s work and stuff like that. but don’t you want to - But of course, there have been experiences that I would say have been hard on me. Like of late, I do accept the fact that I sometimes do go through extreme emotional changes and that is something that I am working on. I guess we are all working on something or the other. yeah, like how i disappear. It does affect things but I try to really not project that onto other people, so sometimes I feel like it’s all on me and I just have to get through it.&nbsp; But it’s just like how sometimes situations and circumstances that define a particular state of my mind, so yeah. for me at least, i know it’s not for everyone but, it’s so intimate, these kinds of works and it’s like, once you know this thing about this person, it’s hard to not see it. it’s hard to distance yourself from it. and like you write, people give a part of themselves to you. and like i wrote to you, i just wanted to face you, you know? that’s why i just wanted to call. there’s not much - because i feel like your work, how you write, i understand it and there’s not much to ask. but i just wanted to face you, and not feel like i just ran away. and that i just made this show and felt cool. i also wanted to say that actually i applied for a grant which would have supposedly - because when i looked at 300 people’s work, i just saw something, i just saw so much that i liked. and then i wanted to make this book where i’d take, i’d re-invite all 24 of you, just a single image from all of you, and then take more from the open call, from the ones we didn’t select before, and then just bring them together. but i didn’t get selected, and i was so sad about it. i wanted to bring you guys something real, you know? But I think it’s just a process sometimes. That’s always something that I also kind of think about, how there are grants and competitions, and how much do they kind of determine your work as an artist, or who is it that really defines who you are as an artist. But it’s just a process of helping you, and kind of providing some external encouragement. But even if someone does not make it through something doesn’t mean that the world is ending. And it’s also like there is so much noise and there is so much networking and all these things are involved. I feel or maybe I used to feel that the kind of situations and backgrounds that I come from, it’s like I always used to think that I am a loner, or that the stroll is pretty lonely for me, but now I have started to kind of think the other way. That if you want to look for help, there will be people who will at least hold your hand. Maybe it’s not getting a big grant or something but it’s just a little push or just a way to hold someone’s hand and just show some path, of where you are, and who you are, and what you can do with your life. It’s not just to be limited by getting a grant, and not getting a grant, or winning an award, or not winning an award, but something more, something more personal. you did get a grant recently, no? Oh! I was nominated for that grant but it did not happen, which is kind of sad because of covid and things got postponed. But yeah, it;s like something that I have been recently - that I am trying to be more active in and trying to figure out opportunities to kind of keep pushing and keep pursuing work. It’s fairly recent...I am starting to understand that it is important also to reach out to people and maybe at least ask for some help or something like that. It’s important and I am still figuring it out. But maybe, eventually we all get somewhere… definitely. and yet no, because i was so happy to see your name there. Yeah...That kind of was a booster. because i thought that it was from home. it would be something from your home coming to you. but now i’m sad to hear it didn’t happen.&nbsp;(edit: In July 2021, during the time that we spoke, the grant had been halted, but now, in October 2021, the nominees are waiting for the final results to be announced) i think i called you too late. you seem lighter. i mention it and i am relieved because you know, years ago i cared for a friend who was suffering and needed to be in the psych ward. some of us were taking care of her but it was really intense to constantly need to be the strong one. i stayed with her through that but when she got out, i kind of ended the friendship because i couldn’t do it anymore. it was hard but i really had nothing left to give. i was left with all of my own needs unminded. but even now when i think about it and her. why do I write all of these things about care and about looking after each other… when in my daily life, my relationships are suffering? why do I need more people? because essentially I did look for more people to care for in this curation when I didn’t do so well at that in my real life. i think I’m just thinking of that often. I think so too. Perhaps you know, we are humans and we don’t really understand each other’s worth unless we actually lose someone and then we start understanding the importance. Because sometimes I feel, it might be like a weird feeling, but that if someone was alive then maybe I wouldn’t have valued that, and it would have led me to something else than where I am right now. I mean these are just thoughts. But I have met people who have lost, I mean, we all lose people in our lives. Eventually I am trying to come to terms with this fact that, it is inevitable. Loss is something that, it’s just how each one of us kind of deals with it, and how each one of us kind of reacts to it that is different. And we just have to have that courage to not give up. But saying this is much easier, you know. Living it is very different. but there are moments sometimes… i feel there are moments where you feel very, very close to loved. to being loved properly. Yeah, definitely. Even if it’s short-lived moments. Like you sharing your story with someone, and listening to their stories, or even more intimate encounters whatever that is. Yeah, there are those moments. And I am not saying that everyone will last forever. Even in my life, I know that. Maybe I might have photographed someone who is not present physically in the same city, or in the same location anymore. But we are in touch and we do talk. The levels of intimacy keep changing, these levels of relationship, but at some point the friendship still remains. And I think that friendship, that solidarity really makes a difference in each other’s lives. That’s why we need to care more about each other. Even if we are kind of like writing letters like the way, we do sometimes. I try to do that even with people I have photographed. That is important for me at least. ijust wanted to share that, looking at your work, how much I feel that you stayed with them, how much you stayed with the people in the photographs, that you shared your presence with them. I think that too also has kind of different experience because I would not say that while I try to photograph and know everyone over time it;s not always possible from a more logistical point of view. So, when I first did this I was actually not staying in the city, I was going to the school upstate but I didn’t study photography. It’s a whole different story I had a scholarship to study something else but anyway, I used to make trips to different parts of America. Mostly like parts in Ohio, some parts in Pennsylvania, some parts in New York. I used to actually couch surf but also like in a way that would be putting myself in a position of anonymity. Because I would not have met that person before, you know? And it was sometimes risky but it was like a game, I feel. It was in the earlier days of 2017 to 2018, and a little bit of 2019 that I kind of did that way. So, that was the intitial way how I started this. Over time some relationships developed and I was able to get deeper into trying to understand some people. It has been a mix of knowing them over time and some people more spontaneously because I know I would not be meeting them again. But whatever the moments where I tried to give it my everything to understand their lives. no that’s what I actually meant. Not really in terms of time duration. But in bearing a moment. To me, what comes across more is how they surrendered themselves to you. You could just see that in that moment they also needed what you brought. I just wanted to say also that it’s so nice to listen to you. I mean you write so well and even if I do like words so much, a lot can be lost or misread without the voice. And though I’m more articulate in writing, recently I’ve also been enjoying letting myself not really know the right thing to say, or the right thing to ask. Wait, I think there is something wrong. I missed what you said. are you okay? I don’t have much questions left. I’m sorry I’m being bad at this. I think I really just wanted to talk about how difficult it actually is to stay in touch. Not just in the physical sense, but that you don’t know how you’ll find a person the next time you see them. And you wrote about it too, how some stay, some fade away. And I problematise this a lot. I’m not succeeding at it. Yeah it’s something that I wrote in that statement which I sent to you. It was literal, but also the very fact that it is also the impossibility of holding on to certain things in life. That’s a more existential level maybe. But yeah, it had both these meanings, when I said that, some stay and some fade away, it’s basically that. As much as you try, people are also like sand you know. the way you and I are Thats true... sometimes your words break down, because of my connection, I think. No, it’s like we are half way across the world from both parts. maybe I’ll ask the last question now. thank you for bearing with me. i know I’m not really at my best right now. but, I really do wanted to ask why you think we ask people to look. Sorry, did you say why we ask people to look? yeah Oh my god that’s the most difficult question for the last i mean we do either push or run away from people but then we also come back with our hands full and essentially kind of say, hey, look what i have, look what i’ve made. I feel this totally...I think that’s just also like one of the things that we both resonate on, this very fact. I think I have also talked about this in the past to you. As much as we try to be independent, we know that we are all part of the same kind of structures, without which we cannot survive. Be it as artists, be it as human beings. That is pretty much why we still need that way to kind of push people to look at our work in that way. And we are helpless, this is perhaps one of the greatest conflicts that I always go through. Even now I am not really a person who would send work to people or stuff like that. I barely do that. It’s just now, over time, I am realising that you have to say yes to some of the situations where people have to kind of look at your work and say things about it. Good or bad doesn’t matter, you have to get people to talk. But I think as long as we are just being sincere and giving our everything to whatever we feel the most about. I think that is most important for me. Art for me also is something that should be about this certain sense of collaboration, this certain sense of belonging towards each other. And to do that it’s not necessary that we always have to like ask big people or institutions. But more like start things at an individual level, what we are doing toward each other? And can we collaborate with each other? Which is more important for me. And I am trying to do that more. Here also. It’s not just people who are from great backgrounds or something. That is one way we can stay free but eventually we are all being conditioned by the same systems. actually I wasn’t even thinking of systems or institutions. i was just thinking of another person. Like for example, your work, there’s so much pain, even if there’s so much love also. And then I’m thinking of that impulse, that impulse or need to tell someone, i’m in pain. Yeah. That I do in a sense that I think it’s more about writing or sharing with people you love. And sometimes you just do it out of an impulse. Like you want someone to react to your life, or to your art in some way. And you want that person to be part of your journey. Like taking out all these institutions or systems, or whatever it is, but just at an individual level, just wanting someone to be a part of your journey. It is difficult but it has to be done also. and it’s about wanting to exist as well, to see yourself existing. Probably, yeah, that’s true. sorry for my weird questions You can ask as many questions... I don’t think I am very good at it… It depends, sometimes I try to be precise, but sometimes I deviate a lot. In our mediums of exchange of conversation, it’s also very limited rather than when we meet face to face, there is a different level of interaction that can happen. And here we are bounded by wi-fi connection, headphones, speakers... that may or may not work always. So I try to condense as much as I can, for your questions. no I’m also a bit apologetic for being intrusive. I don’t have anything much left to ask actually. Just if you wanted to say something more, I was actually interested about what do you think care would look like, or should look like in the art world? I think that’s a very difficult question...I don’t think like I would have a precise... like I said if you are thinking about the art world or something. That’s what you meant right, care in the art world? yeah I recently I remember I shared this interview with you also, the one where I collaborated with a writer from here. She is a trans writer. What I am trying to kind of go for is the fact that I am trying to build this kind of collaborative practice with people. Where it’s not just really about my photographs, or it’s not just about their words, but it’s more about an exchange. Because I think this would be like the greatest way of changing for the better. And caring for each other is how and when we share our experiences through whatever mediums we feel comfortable in. So when images and words or images and videos, moving images, still images, they kind of like coalesce together, connect together from different perspectives and points of view, it can really give rise to something else, that we have seen even in Angkor or just in general. And that for me is care, when we kind of look after each other in the art world without giving into so much of the noise or the logic of individual publications or exhibitions or whatever. Though that is important too, because we are in this world together, and there is no way out, unfortunately at this point. But we have to think about situations that are more micro level actually. Think about each other and where we are coming from our individual experiences. Only then we can give rise to something more. I think at this point especially when it comes to moving image or photography it’s no longer just some sort of an individual effort like writing with words, where you can just sit back at your home and write stuff. Which is also great. But with photography and writing when it combines together it really gives rise to something else. Because it’s a different story that we tell. Care is very difficult while it should be something that we should have done a long time ago, we only realise it after we lose people and especially in the light of the pandemic and whatever has happened. Now we realise that we need to look after each other, you know. But this should have been a very basic human trait. It’s not something that rises suddenly. It should have always been there especially in the art world. But we did find it lacking, and I believe that eventually we will be getting better and growing together. i just wanted to share, you know how I was telling you about the book idea that I had? It was called Look after each other. It will happen. I remember recently a friend of mine from here. He is much younger. I am 28 right now, he is just 23 -24. He was kind of interested in doing this interview. I think that was for his school photography project. Where he was actually selecting works but pairing it with the “why’s” and “how’s” of why people have been photographing. He also did a zoom session with me. Then his mother fell sick and stuff. But that’s why I kind of supported him, I try to support people like me, where we are trying to do things. Both as a collaborative practice so we can always like look out for each other no matter how difficult life is. i wanted to share something that I recently heard. I was watching this show and there was a mother talking to her daughter and she was saying that each person’s kindness is handmade, and that because of that it’s easy to misunderstand, or be thought of as fake. she also said kindness is your heart trying to grow. I like this idea also. Sometimes you know like if you look at movie stills, not moving images, certain moments are so interesting. I don’t exactly recall who did it, but there was a friend from back home who kind of used to make montages of different movie stills with connecting quotes like the subtitles that you have in english. But it also kind of creates a story of someone’s life and that is also very interesting because when you look at movie stills you will find those emotions are frozen in time. So it’s a very interesting way to talk about stories and life. And I think recently I looked at this photographer’s work which I think he is from Philippines, but I forgot his name. geloy? Yeah! He has been doing it with the archives, and then mixing up with the texts of people who have gone through situations. I feel that is so powerful. i didn’t have a camera and he gave me his camera. so I am really grateful to him. Yeah, he is amazing. And that kind of made me feel you know? I feel that work is something that gives hope. For me when I look at those words that people write, especially on this mysterious archival images, I realise that it’s not just me or you, who are just suffering. A lot of people are and they are in pain. And this pain needs to be addressed. And the more we address it we also kind of relieve ourselves from it. And we kind of grow also from there. or even just to acknowledge it by saying, I believe in you. By saying you believe the person. Yeah… exactly. but the challenge is to slow down That is also something that bothers me. If you look at Instagram or just in general, people are always like what new project or what new work are you doing? This and that. it has become kind of like a CV thing. It used to be more personal. Yeah… I sometimes kind of joke to my friends here it’s becoming more like Amazon production factory or something where we keep on producing work. It’s alright to take your time. Right now I have to survive here. I was literally in a very bad situation for like a couple of months. So I took up like a service kind of basic pay job. And I also get time to photograph but not maybe in the same logic that I used to in the past. But this is just for this time. The idea is to not think so much and just be open toward experiences in life. It’s not always that I have to get to this show or something. it’s better I think…because then whatever you’ll make next, it’ll come from life. It won’t just be a project. That is something that some people have told me, you know in the end perhaps life is just one project in itself and you always have these different chapters in it. Of course we have like different commitments, if you are supposed to cover a protest, or war or a fight, that is also part of our lives. But in the end it’s just one. It’s just how we look at it and how we decide to add meaning to it. yeah… and it’ll also show what you paid attention to We all are just trying to find ways to survive, basically. I think there would not have been any sort of desire within us to actually pursue and create if there was no longer this tension. This fight to survive and struggle. So it’s all good... If I start to think about it this way, it’s all good. thank you for speaking to me, for struggling with me. i am not very professional. Even I am not very professional. no you’ve been so much better. I feel a bit embarrassed for being too personal. No, I like people who are more personal other than just touching the surface of things you know. But I hope that I have been able to add meaning to your efforts. I think I forgot to ask you what exactly was your idea with these interviews and things that you wanted to do? it’s because Angkor is trying to post the work again online. I didn’t want to just release it as the same thing. Yeah. That makes complete sense. and also because I didn’t want to just run away from everyone. I wanted to find a way to return somehow. To not just write all of those things about care and not do the difficult part of caring, which is being present and returning, finding a way to stay in touch. This is something that, when I look at your work you have very touching, moving image pieces. You know like moving - From the past I was looking, I am really fascinated by the moving image. Perhaps it’s also like some sort of a fear in me that I am not venturing into that territory. But maybe eventually I will. It’s just something that perhaps expands the horizons of how we can interpret our situations in life. you have time. you can stay longer. as it was in the beginning, i’m convincing you to stay longer. I feel it’s the most important thing to us which we do with a certain innocence. That’s all that matters. Doesn’t have to be some perfect embodiment or something or whatever. It’s just doing something with innocence and our own sincerity and clarity. Which I still don’t know where I am at that point in life but I am trying. We are all trying. how do you make grant people remember to value innocence? As long as we are doing something with our own honesty and I would say, like an extension of our own lives. That’s it. Everything else let the people decide whatever will happen or not happen. it will be a loss if I didn’t ask what do you want to do. Wait. Did you ask what do you want to be? well, maybe I was asking, what do you want to work on? For my next move? in general, or in life Oh! Generally. That a very difficult question. sorry I only have difficult questions Yeah…I mean in that sense, is it on an existential level? you can just see how much I don’t talk to people because these are the questions I have… I know... I understand because I wouldn’t have a specific answer to this. I mean I would say that I want to be a photographer or move into filmmaking, or make moving images, but that answer is also very predictable and easy... in that sense we will all become that eventually. At a greater level if I think I would say that the immediate thing for me is to go past the situations of my past life. Go beyond it and try to look at the world in a more hopeful way. Because I think I am sometimes a bit cynical of situations around us given the fact that whatever we are going through. I always think about things like why do people do certain extreme steps because it’s so very personal for me whatever has happened. And I have done some stupid things also in the past. So I am trying to look at the world in a more positive way, that’s one thing. And more importantly I am shooting more colour…. If I think about it I would say just being open to life right now and trying to take just one day at a time. Keep surviving, keep fighting. Have new situations, encounters. Find new ways, try to find new forms of the language, that’s like, it. I would not say like I have some real long term goals but that’s pretty much it. Just being open. thank you This is like the most difficult question like what does life mean to you or something like that... sorry… these are the things in my head. This is what I like too. The ones that you can actually not answer. You don’t have a precise answer to these things. It’s like love, if you ask someone, what does love mean to you, different people will come up with different answers. But we still try in the end and that it’s that effort of reaching some point and getting lost. you just try to come close That’s true. okay. i will leave you to your evening now. And I will leave you to your morning. It’s really early there, 6 A.M? it’s 7:30. thank you so much and it has been very lovely to talk to you. Same here. You know we have been going through a lot of emails but we never talked. i hope I didn’t bring too much of the dark side No, no... I feel light now... when you’re old and you are the one in the panel to decide, I hope you remember to value innocence. I am in a panel? Oh my god! That’s a joke… please select the nice guys, the soft ones. Oh yeah. We could talk about that some other day. thank you. goodbye Yeah. Goodbye. https://dennesevictoria.info/a-reunion Thu, 14 Apr 2022 07:30:48 +0000 dennese victoria https://dennesevictoria.info/a-reunion An essay I contributed for a book published on the occasion of Lesley-Anne Cao and Lao Lianben’s exhibition, More light than heat.&nbsp; For the exhibition, I collaborated with the artist Lesley-Anne Cao to film 7 single-channel HD videos in a work titled A vitrine, then a window https://lesleyannecao.com/A-vitrine-then-a-window Full issue:https://issuu.com/callewright/docs/more_light_than_heat <img width="2880" height="1800" width_o="2880" height_o="1800" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/0c9618dcf20404dd9c6fd01a57c513d3829cf5b54eab17017bd05c09dfdc3bd6/Screen-Shot-2022-04-14-at-3.46.06-PM.png" data-mid="139615348" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/0c9618dcf20404dd9c6fd01a57c513d3829cf5b54eab17017bd05c09dfdc3bd6/Screen-Shot-2022-04-14-at-3.46.06-PM.png" /> <img width="4240" height="2832" width_o="4240" height_o="2832" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/2d8e69f932cef10195a679b13b4f023dc5bf9f4004e185de4aa05691f4f1fd64/DSC03280.jpeg" data-mid="139737146" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/2d8e69f932cef10195a679b13b4f023dc5bf9f4004e185de4aa05691f4f1fd64/DSC03280.jpeg" /> Many thanks to Ariana Mercado&nbsp;and Alex Tuico. 15 May 2020, Metro ManilaA reunion before the world Dennese Victoria It took a long time before I heard the first sentence. All throughout March, then April, and finally, May, I was just thinking, Why are we still here? Why are still talking about this? The days moved (Mother’s cousin catches the virus and loses). I could see again (Not long after, her husband follows). We have been pushed into this new world. How can I speak about this now? Tell the truth to begin. What of then is still true? The invitation came long after I had said yes to writing. I don’t like doubting what I love and yet I do it all the time. I am looking at the branch where I had filmed the dress. It was dead then, the tree it was attached to, halved. Now I must tell you that it had lived. There are new leaves in place, though I can’t seem to look at it without seeing the dress. Gold thread running along its edges, you called it a door. I see it up close and then from a bit of distance. I see the version I first thought of but never got to make, the one where it’s just falling, continuously from a high place. I remember deciding the risk was too high. The thread’s real, after all. Maybe I was scared to execute it, maybe there was not enough time, maybe I wanted to take care of it, to keep it safe. I see it now too the way you had first let me see it. Dark room in Hong Kong, pictures resized to fit the palm, a mental image of your friend trying to sew parts of the cloth together. Difficult, she said, and you relayed. I know I’ve returned everything to you and yet somehow, even with the new growth, with this new covering, this one is still here. Memory believes before knowing even remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders. Faulkner, Chapter 6, in a novel called Light in August, though I didn’t receive it from the original. Rather, I found it through Sally Mann; first in a recording of her conversation with Paul Holdengräber, and later as I was reading a book she had recently released. The title, Hold Still, a memoir with photographs. I should be moved; by life, by the resurrection. I had really grieved (as I did for the other tree that used to stand beside it years ago) waking to find that tree cut in half. And yet I still also see myself climbing on our roof, almost a year ago now, trying to catch what little light was available before it rained. It was a game you had invented, I would later tell people when asked. A world built with objects that I (the player? the borrower?) had to occasion to move. Not that this was the instruction, but I felt that it was what was being asked for. Document, you said. Though each time an object landed in my hands, I instead heard, Move me. Turn me into something other, more than what I am. And perhaps, indirectly, or because we had discussed it in the first meeting (the twins, the scales, the mirrors), a game of surprising, yes, but also a game of pleasing. You prefer to call it,&nbsp;work, I know. Passed through, also words that you like to use. So maybe it is I who tends to ask (demand?) more from images. I have been trying to return everything to you. I wonder if you’ll take them back. I wonder if you still like any of it. Why ask objects to move? Why give a version? You had agreed to letting me render them however I wanted to though most of the time it was only in whatever way I could. It wasn’t question and answer, but more of, question and response. My work was to make attempts, and it stopped each time you agreed, each time you decided to say you were pleased. I happened to be there on their last day at Vargas and I was surprised, then pleased, at seeing them again. I didn’t expect you’d show the objects like that and because of this I loved it even more that they were just lain there. I wondered what had finally moved you to do so. At rest and not in my hands, they were again themselves and perhaps more yours. I could both look and see them. Nothing to wrestle with, no need to find its right place. I could just behold. This was a worry that I had carried for More Light than Heat. People were coming for you and instead they were going to see versions, they were going to see my rough translations. It is the work, I know, I understand. You had directed everything and we played for you, with you. But I was worried about taking care not just of the objects, but of your work. Would something of what is unseen from you, and therefore more real, be carried through? Would it find a way to live? So here am I asking again, and I hope, for not too much. When I was beginning to recollect what I knew of my time with the objects, I thought I was going to write about ghosts. But we, all of us now, are too far, and they cannot touch us. Where do the objects go? I remember asking you then when I realized that you were used to exhibiting, not the object themselves, but renderings of the objects made by people you happened to choose. Home is the answer I remember you giving. You bring them home. Still, I wonder where else they are present, where else they live — your memory, your brother’s impression, the versions we had agreed upon, and the ones not unmade, but interior, therefore untarnished, all light.